Last night, C-SPAN aired the full, unedited version of the Mike Wallace interview with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It gives us some additional insights that we would have otherwise lost, which is why we secured the transcript for you below.
Wallace and Ahmadinejad discussed the President's embrace of "martyrdom" as "the epitome of excellence"; there was a more extended conversation on the Holocaust; Ahmadinejad rejected the authority of the Security Council to levy sanction because the Security Council "is there to safeguard the interests of the British and the Americans"; he denied reports that following his speech to the UN General Assembly last year he said "For 27 minutes, none of the world leaders blinked. They were astonished as if a hand held them there and made them sit. It had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic"; and Ahmadinejad expressed his belief that it is the responsibility of the U.S. to support Hezbollah.
MR. WALLACE: Mr. President, you have a remarkable capacity for saying things that make headlines. May I please read some of them back to you to get your reaction to things you have said in the past?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Very good. Very good. That's fine.
MR. WALLACE: Thank you.
It was soon after you became president of Iran that you asked the fascinating question -- this one -- about suicide bombing. You said, "Is there any art more beautiful, more divine, more eternal than the art of the martyr's death?"
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, I remember that.
MR. WALLACE: What did that mean?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you should understand the definition of "martyrdom" to appreciate what I have said.
MR. WALLACE: In other words, you mean you're giving up your life for a cause?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, it is a readiness, this is a spiritual readiness, and this is a very lofty status, spiritual status for a person to be. It is the epitome of excellence, I would say. Those who lay down their lives in the way of freedom, they have the respect of all nations. Those who are working to secure the rights of all people are provided respect wherever they go. Those who give their wealth, their time, and forego their own, I would say desires, again, they have the respect of all nations.
MR. WALLACE: So you can think, perhaps, that there would be circumstances when you would do that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the spirit of martyrdom, you are confusing that with suicide attacks.
MR. WALLACE: No, no, no.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Because you are yet to appreciate the definition, the concept of martyrdom, I would say. A soldier who is working to secure and safeguard the independence of his nation, what would you call him? If a soldier is afraid of death, he will not be able to defend his land. So he must not be afraid of death. And this, to some extent, is the definition of that spirit of seeking martyrdom.
MR. WALLACE: Okay. Last December, you said this: "The Europeans created a myth -- the Holocaust."
A myth?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I don't understand, what questions are you going to put to me?
MR. WALLACE: The questions I intend to put to you are things that you have said in the past, things that have made headlines.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I have said these in the past. Do you want us to repeat what has been said already? That would produce a very repetitious -- if I can use that word -- interview.
Put a new question to me, sir.
MR. WALLACE: Please. I am doing the questioning.
America is trying to understand President Ahmadinejad. And one of the ways that we can understand you is by repeating various things that you have said over a period of the past years. Certainly you're not ashamed of the things that you've said --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is very correct. I am not ashamed, and I have -- whatever I have said is correct. There are many things that the American public must come to know. Many others, on the other hand, don't want the American public to know about these. It will be best if we talk about those as well.
MR. WALLACE: For instance?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, with regards to unemployment in the U.S. and the behavior of the American administration throughout the (war/world ?), and also the literacy rate in the U.S., and the wars that have been waged by the American government in the past 100 years, imposed it on others -- these are important issues.
MR. WALLACE: I see --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: But with regards to the Holocaust --
MR. WALLACE: Yes --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- well, my question is, if something has happened, I am sure that there are very clear evidence out there available. And this is something which has had a hand, if I can use that word, in the equations and the formulas of the past 60 years.
And on the pretext of this, a land has been occupied. Millions of people have been made refugees. Thousands of people to date have been killed, sir. Thousands of people have been put in prison. Well, at the very moment, a great war is raging because of that.
So apparently this was an important issue. If this is real, then they should let everyone research it. Everyone should talk about it. And once it is prohibited -- of course, research and talking about it is prohibited -- that brings about questions. If it is a reality, well, it will only help if we do more research on the subject.
My question was not this, to be honest with you, in the first place. What I did say was that if this is a reality, if this is real, where did it take place?
MR. WALLACE: In Germany. In Germany.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Who caused this? In Europe --
MR. WALLACE: In Europe.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: (In English.) In Europe.
MR. WALLACE: If I may, so what you are suggesting -- one moment -- what you are suggesting, then -- that Israel should be over in Germany, because that's where the Holocaust took place?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: (Through interpreter.) I'm not saying that, mind you.
Well, if an atrocity was committed in Germany, or Europe for that matter, why should the Palestinians answer for this? I'm not saying that the answer to the Holocaust led to the establishment of a government. This is something that the British and the Americans are saying. I am saying that if this happened, the Palestinians must not pay for this or be responsible for this. They had no role to play in this. Why on the pretext of the Holocaust they have occupied Palestine? This is the question that Western media -- mass media never bothered with, and to date, I have not received an answer. I think that they have to provide answers to this question. If they do just that, many of the outstanding issues will be resolved automatically. Please remember that we are saddened when a person is killed in any part of the world.
MR. WALLACE: I understand. I understand. Look, if you could -- if you could keep your answers concise, I beg you, we'll get more questions in.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, one of your questions required -- all of your questions require a book-long answer. If you want me to just finish the interview, please tell me and we can wrap up right now.
MR. WALLACE: No, no, no, no, no. You apparently, even before you were offered an incentive package by the Europeans to stop your nuclear power program, the enrichment of uranium, you rejected it. You said, "Our nuclear technology is more valuable than your incentives. Do you think that you are dealing a four-year-old child and can take away his gold for a few walnuts?"
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, that quote was a part of a speech delivered last year. With regards to the package, we welcomed the idea. We said that this a step forward, and we're going to study it. We also satisfied a time -- a timeframe for us to express our opinion about the package. We have said that in the 22nd of August we are going to inform the board about our opinion.
MR. WALLACE: When the United Nations Security Council threatened sanctions if you continued your uranium enrichment program, you said this: "We don't give a damn about U.N. sanctions."
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, we think that the world has to be ruled and administered with justice and with law. Lawlessness leads to chaos. If we don't have laws, you will not be able to administer anything and to rule anything. And without a law, a proper set of laws you cannot even govern a small village. We need laws. We need laws.
MR. WALLACE: This has nothing to do, Mr. President, with --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, if I may, sir, if I may. Please be patient, sir. Maybe these days you don't have a lot of patience to spare. Please be patient with me and please hear what I have to say, sir. As I was saying, we need justice. So -- and laws for all and justice for all. And an illegal decision obviously is not acceptable, and an unjust decision is equally unacceptable based on international laws and regulations.
MR. WALLACE: What is the illegal sanction?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, they cannot sanction us. They need us more than we need them.
For 27 years now we have lived with American sanctions, but we did not respond in kind because we don't believe in these. These are unfair practices. We believe in other practices. Therefore, we don't -- the UNSC has been created to provide security, not discrimination.
Now, look at Lebanon, if you will. The UNSC cannot bring about a cease-fire in that country. Of course we have to appreciate that its very raison d'etre is to create a cease-fire. Now, what is the reason for that?
MR. WALLACE: You tell me, what is the reason? What is the reason?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the reason is that the UNSC is there to safeguard the interests of the British and the Americans. They are not there to provide security, it's very clear.
MR. WALLACE: The UNSC -- the United Nations Security Council -- is there to protect the interests of the United States and the British? That's what you say?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: No, I'm not saying that its raison d'etre is that; rather, it has been created to help with peace and justice, but we see that it is not responding to atrocities. If we search for the root causes, we see the hand of the British and the Americans.
Last year, our speaker of Parliament intended to participate in a conference in the United Nations. The Americans refused to issue a visa for him. This tells me that the U.N., and also the UNSC -- what can I say -- are being influenced.
MR. WALLACE: By who? By whom?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the UNSC, I ask you, why did it not create a cease-fire in the Lebanon? Twenty-seven days now have passed -- or should I say 28 days now have passed from the start of the hostilities. People -- innocent people are being killed.
MR. WALLACE: Understood.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And houses are being destroyed. Where is the UNSC?
Also, the draft resolution which has been circulated only serves the interests of one party, and it is not just. The Americans had threatened us beforehand.
MR. WALLACE: What, the Americans had threatened Iran before? Why? How?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes. They tell us that if you don't accept this, we are going to drag you before the UNSC and condemn you. This tells me that the UNSC is very much being controlled by them. Otherwise, how can they tell us beforehand that if you don't accept, approve the package, the UNSC is going to sanction you? Am I to understand that the UNSC is only limited to the British and the Americans? And they are, for all practical purposes, the speaker of the UNSC. So the picture is very clear. It's surprising for me. You are an old hand in journalism, sir, how can you not appreciate this? And the UNSC refuses to carry out its duty.
MR. WALLACE: You are an old hand, sir, at making allegations that are not necessarily accurate. But more important, Israel -- you have said, time and again, Israel must be wiped off the map. Please explain why. And what is Iran doing about that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, allow me to finish with the nuclear dossier first.
MR. WALLACE: Oh, you've finished with that. You've finished with that. Please.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: No, it's not finished, sir. It's not finished.
MR. WALLACE: Okay.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We are just beginning.
MR. WALLACE: Ho, ho! That's what I was afraid of. But go.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the Americans are overly sensitive, and of course the American government -- I don't know why they're opposed to Iranian progress.
MR. WALLACE: Iranian what?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, yes, development. Iranian progress and development.
MR. WALLACE: The United States is against Iranian progress and development?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is true.
MR. WALLACE: Ah, you know that's not so.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I'm going to explain.
MR. WALLACE: Okay.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I think that you will remember what I'm going to say as I continue to talk. Before the establishment of the Islamic Republic of Iran, a dictatorship used to rule this country.
MR. WALLACE: The shah of Iran?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: One hundred thousand American advisers used to be here in this country, working in this country. All the affairs of this country were ran by the Americans.
In 1332, Iranian calendar, they opposed a popular government taking power in this country. They helped the coup organizers. Of course, later they apologized -- of course, 50 years later. And that wasn't --
MR. WALLACE: What in the dickens -- forgive me --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Allow me to finish.
MR. WALLACE: What the dickens does this have to do with your statement over and over that the state of Israel must be wiped off the map?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, please, sir, allow me to finish my comment.
So I was hoping that you will be patient with me. So please be patient and hear what I have to say, and please keep a(n) open ear.
MR. WALLACE: I have an open --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Before the victory or, should I say, immediately after the victory of the revolution, the opposition -- the American opposition against the Iranian people started. Before the revolution, the German, French, American governments and the Canadian government had signed contracts with us to produce nuclear fuel inside Iran.
But immediately after the establishment of the Islamic Republic, their opposition started. And we were sanctioned from the very beginning of the victory of the Islamic Republic. They imposed an eight-year war on us, and America was one of the main supporters of Saddam. Later they said that we have made a mistake.
Right now they are opposed to our nuclear technology. Now, why is that?
MR. WALLACE: You are very good at filibustering. You still have not answered the question. You still have not answered the question. Israel must be wiped off the map. Why?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, don't be hasty, sir. I'm going to get to that.
MR. WALLACE: I'm not hasty.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I think that the Israeli government is a fabricated government, and I have talked about the solution. The solution is democracy. We have said allow Palestinian people to participate in a free and fair referendum to express their views. What we are saying only serves the cause of durable peace. We want durable peace in that part of the world. A durable peace will only come about with once the views of the people are met.
So we said that allow the people of Palestine to participate in a referendum to choose their desired government, and of course, for the war to come an end as well. Why are they refusing to allow this to go ahead? Even the Palestinian administration and government which has been elected by the people is being attacked on a daily basis, and its high-ranking officials are assassinated and arrested. Yesterday, the speaker of the Palestinian parliament was arrested, elected by the people, mind you. So how long can this go on?
We believe that this problem has to be dealt with fundamentally. I believe that the American government is blindly supporting this government of occupation. It should lift its support, allow the people to participate in free and fair elections. Whatever happens let it be. We will accept and go along. The result will be as you said earlier, sir.
MR. WALLACE: Look, I mean no disrespect. Let's make a deal. I will listen to your complete answers if you'll stay for all of my questions. My concern is that we might run out of time.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you're free to ask me any questions you please, and I am hoping that I'm free to be able to say whatever is on my mind. You are free to put any question you want to me, and of course, please give me the right to respond fully to your questions to say what is on my mind.
Do you perhaps want me to say what you want me to say? Am I to understand --
MR. WALLACE: No.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So if that is the case, then I ask you to please be patient.
MR. WALLACE: I said I'll be very patient.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Maybe these are words that you don't like to hear, Mr. Wallace.
MR. WALLACE: Why? What words do I not like to hear?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Because I think that you're getting angry.
MR. WALLACE: No, I couldn't be happier for the privilege of sitting down with the president of Iran.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So please be patient with me then.
MR. WALLACE: Yes, yes.
Last fall, doing your speech at the United Nations at the General Assembly, you said you felt -- an aura surrounded you and took hold of your audience. I quote you. "For 27 minutes," you said, "none of the world leaders blinked. They were astonished as if a hand held them there and made them sit. It had opened their eyes and ears for the message of the Islamic Republic."
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: These are interesting words, and I read about these in the newspapers myself.
I think that these are newspaper stories put in the papers to sell more newspapers.
MR. WALLACE: You didn't say that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I read this in the newspapers.
MR. WALLACE: I'm not asking whether you read it in the newspaper. Did you not say that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I was told by the papers about these.
MR. WALLACE: Some of the awful things that are going on, done by Hezbollah, your friend. You have supported them with hundreds of millions of dollars. You have furnished them with rockets and missiles. And they have -- you know what they have done. Why?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you are saying something and you are saying that we have done those.
MR. WALLACE: Yes.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We support all nations in the world, whoever is victimized and oppressed, even the oppressed people of the U.S. Also the oppressed people of Europe; for that matter, Africa, Southeast Asia. We are opposed to oppression. We look at the picture and we see that the U.S. and the Israelis have a(n) "air bridge," so to speak, and they are providing state-of-the-art military hardware to the Zionists, and they are throwing their full support behind Israel. So the people of the region are asking --
MR. WALLACE: And Iran? And Iran?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: The people of the region are asking why. Why American officials do not want the people of the region to know about this?
We are friends of all the peoples of the region. We are the friend of all the people throughout the world I would say. And whatever we do, we come out and announce it. We provide spiritual support to all nations and political support.
We -- very clearly, I will tell you that I fully oppose the behavior of the British and the Americans.
MR. WALLACE: Oh, yes, I know that you do.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We believe that this threatens the future of all peoples, including the American and European peoples. So we are asking why the American government is blindly supporting this murderous regime.
MR. WALLACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Their laser-guided bombs have been given to the Zionists, and they're targeting the shelter of defenseless children and women. Right now they have been defeated, and to --
MR. WALLACE: I cannot believe that you're saying all of this. I really cannot believe it. Who has given Hezbollah hundreds of millions of dollars for years? Who has given Hezbollah Iranian-made missiles and rockets that is making -- that are making all kinds -- may I ask my question, please, sir?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Are you the representative of the Zionist regime or a journalist?
Q I am a journalist. I am a journalist.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: This is not journalism, sir. Hezbollah is a popular organization in Lebanon and they are defending their land.
Q Oh, really?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And their land has been occupied. They have the right to defend their territory.
I am surprised; why are you unhappy that they are defending themselves?
MR. WALLACE: Well --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: They should defend themselves, and you are supposed to help them.
MR. WALLACE: I see.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Of course, you have refused to shoulder your responsibilities, and --
MR. WALLACE: Who's "you"? Me?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- now you are taking me to task? I was fully expecting that you would be willing to support the cause of Hezbollah, and it is very sad to see that you refuse to help Hezbollah.
Hezbollah is a popular organization inside the Lebanon. Armies supported by the Americans, the Zionist army, has attacked them from air, sea and land. They are defending their own houses. And according to the charter of the United Nations, every person has the right to defend his house. Are you going to refuse this right? Are you going to refute this right?
MR. WALLACE: Mr. President, President Bush has said, vowed he will not allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon. Do you believe it?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, basically we are not looking for, working for the bomb. We believe that the time of the bomb and its effectiveness is behind us. The bomb belongs to the past.
The problem that President Bush has -- that in his mind he wants to solve everything with bombs -- and he believes that his power emanates from his nuclear warhead arsenals.
The time of the bomb is in the past. It's behind us. Today is the era of thoughts, dialogue and cultural exchanges. We must love the people. All human beings are good, are basically good, and the dignity of all men and women must be respected.
Everyone has the right to live in peace and harmony. All have the right to live as well as possible, to have prosperity and welfare.
We are not working to produce the bomb. But if Mr. Bush thinks that he can stop our progress, I have to say that he will be unable to do that.
MR. WALLACE: What do you mean?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, we want to have access to nuclear technology. We want to produce fuel. Do you not think that the most important issue of the world of tomorrow, that is, will be energy?
We think that Mr. Bush's team and the parties that support him want to monopolize energy resources in the world, because once they have that, they can impose their opinions, points of view, policies on other nations and, of course, line their own pockets.
Well, our activities are peaceful, and the IAEA has time and again said so. They have never witnessed any diversion on our part.
I ask you, sir. A party who has used atomic bombs at the moment is making and stockpiling atomic bombs -- can it be a party which is concerned with peace?
The time of such (words ?) is up and in the past. The nations of the world have awakened. I believe that Mr. Bush has to change his view as well. And he should look on the world through fresh perspective and he has to wash his eyes. And to love the people more, he must not be just bothered with money and power.
MR. WALLACE: One of your assistants, one of your aides just gave you a note. What is he telling you?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, they have told me to rearrange my jacket.
MR. WALLACE: (Laughs.) They -- why are they worried about your jacket? I think you look just fine.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is right. They have told me the same thing. They tell me that it's a very nice looking coat.
MR. WALLACE: Yes, but they're somehow -- I mean, there was hell to pay before about your jacket and all kinds of arrangements that your aides were -- are you a vain man?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Sometimes appearance is -- yes, you have to look your best.
MR. WALLACE: Well, let me reassure you --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is why I comb my hair.
MR. WALLACE: Let me assure you, you look your best, really.
Look, the United Nations Security Council, which you abhor, has passed a resolution saying that you must stop your uranium enrichment program by August 31st. Do you intend to do that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, what was the question, sir?
MR. WALLACE: Are you going to stop your uranium enrichment program by August 31st, as the U.N. Security Council resolution demanded?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I have responded to this question earlier to some extent, and we are -- I'm going to respond to the demands made by the U.N.S.C. in the near future.
MR. WALLACE: What do you do for leisure?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I do many things. I have many hobbies.
MR. WALLACE: For instance?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I study. I read books. I exercise. And of course, I spend some time -- quality time with my family.
MR. WALLACE: You have three children?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yeah, well, you know very well, sir.
MR. WALLACE: Yes.
You're an interesting fellow, aren't you?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And you're doing your best to get an inside.
MR. WALLACE: Yes.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: But with these questions I don't think that you will succeed.
MR. WALLACE: What would you like to tell America?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: The people of the U.S. or the government of the U.S.?
MR. WALLACE: Both.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I wrote a letter to the government and talked with American officials.
MR. WALLACE: Eighteen pages your letter.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And I did not receive an answer. Yes, yes many important developments, of course, are unfolding around the world. It's only natural a president, when he writes a letter to another president, he will have many, many things to say.
MR. WALLACE: Well, why do you think that President Bush figured it was not worth answering you?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you have to ask him that.
MR. WALLACE: Well, he said he thought it was a publicity stunt that you had embarked upon by sending an 18-page --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Why would I need to attract attention to?
MR. WALLACE: What did you expect to hear back from President Bush?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I was expecting Mr. Bush to give up -- or I should say to change his behavior. I was hoping to open a new window for the gentleman. One can certainly look on the world from other perspectives. You can love the people. You can love all people. You can talk with the people of the Middle East using another language, other words. Instead of blind support for an imposed regime, they can establish a more appropriate relationship with the people of the region.
MR. WALLACE: You can love the people. That's very easy to say. You despise certain people. You despise the Zionists.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I don't despise people, or individuals I should say.
MR. WALLACE: You despise Zionist leaders.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: What we are saying -- what I am saying is that I despise heinous action. What I'm saying is that the killing of innocents is reprehensible. And making this -- and the displacement of people and making them refugees, again is reprehensible.
MR. WALLACE: Well, what does Hezbollah -- wait a minute. Hezbollah is displacing and damaging and making bleed all kinds of people. You know that.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I am not at all pleased with the war. I don't want the war to continue. But in the charter of the United Nations, all nations have been accorded the right to legally defend themselves. Please tell me, are the Lebanese inside the occupied lands right now or is it the other way around, the Zionist troops are in Lebanese territory? Lebanon is defending its independence. We are not at all happy with war. That is why on the first day we condemned these recent conflict and we asked for an immediate cease-fire.
MR. WALLACE: Who doesn't want a cease-fire? Who doesn't want a cease-fire?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, that question tells me that you have not read the newspapers recently.
MR. WALLACE: Okay. Who doesn't want a cease-fire? You educate me.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Let me ask you that. Who was opposed to the resolution leading to the cease-fire in the UNSC? The American and British government.
MR. WALLACE: Why, do you think? Why?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, it is because of their mentality, I would say. They think that they have to provide full support to this regime of occupation and they think that it should be in a stronger position, and once it is in that position, a cease-fire will benefit them.
A person who likes the people, who loves the people, would not want to see even one single innocent killed. That is why our proposal for the resolution to the Palestinian issue is a humanitarian one. We have said and continue to say that the Palestinians should be given the chance to organize a referendum. This is a humanitarian proposal. I don't know why the U.S. and the British are opposed to this.
MR. WALLACE: Iraq.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Mm-hmm.
MR. WALLACE: Was it the Ayatollah Khomeini who gave little keys to heaven to your young people -- Iranians, 12, 13, 14, 15 years old -- a key to heaven if they, when the Iraqis were approaching you during the Iraq-Iran War, they were -- they were asked to use their bodies to detonate mines so that would slow the approach of the Iraqi troops. Now, you know -- that, incidentally, is why -- is why Anwar Sadat called Khomeini a lunatic.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the comments made by the late Sadat is not the criteria for what's right and wrong.
But the question is, what's -- which people, when Saddam had attacked Iran, were supporting him?
MR. WALLACE: The United States supported him.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Very true, very true. Were you expecting the Iranian youth not to defend their country, sir? Iranians are bold and courageous people.
MR. WALLACE: So you agree -- so you agree that Khomeini said here is a key to heaven --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, allow me to continue my comments, and -- you are --
MR. WALLACE: Okay.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- you are supposed to be patient with me.
MR. WALLACE: Yes.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So I fully listened to your question; I ask you to please fully listen to my response.
MR. WALLACE: I shall.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Saddam attacked our country, and our people for more than 200 years now have not attacked another country. There's no record of that. They attacked us once we had just, so to speak, finished with the victory -- I'm sorry, with the revolution -- victory of the revolution, and we were involved in the reconstruction of the country.
Were you expecting Iranian youth not to defend their country, sir? At the moment, if a problem comes about for America, what will you tell the American youth to do?
While divine concepts must not be used in political power plays, we believe that any person who is martyred and gives his life in the way of his religion -- defending his religion, his land and his dignity -- will immediately go to heaven, and the Almighty loves such people. If it was a -- if we didn't have this love to defend our land, no border, I would say, would have remained unscathed.
MR. WALLACE: I am told, incidentally, I'm told that your aides want us to wind up our interview. But you kindly promised to answer my questions, and I still have just a few left.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you might have five more hours of questions!
MR. WALLACE: Well, of course I might.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I have other appointments to get to.
MR. WALLACE: None more important than this, Mr. President.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, yes, but --
MR. WALLACE: I am told that your Revolutionary Guards, Mr. President, are taking bombs, those roadside bombs, the IEDs, into Iraq. And what they are doing is furnishing the insurgents in Iraq with the kind of material that can kill U.S. soldiers.
Why would you want to do that? Especially because you say you love people.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, we are very saddened that the people of Iraq are being killed. I will go back to what I said earlier. I believe that the rulers of the U.S. have to change their mentality. Wherever they are defeated, they immediately accuse others. I ask you, sir, what is the American army doing inside Iraq? Iraq has a government, a parliament. Iraq has a civilized nation with a long history of civilization. These are people we are dealing with. Why are the Americans killing --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Was Saddam --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- Iraqis on a daily basis?
MR. WALLACE: Was Saddam a civilized, reasonable leader? Were we wrong to go into Iraq?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, Saddam's story has been finished for close to three years, I would say. He belongs in the past.
MR. WALLACE: I just asked --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And the Americans are openly saying that we are here for the long run -- in Iraq that is. So a question for you: According to international law, the responsibility of providing security rests on the shoulder of the occupation -- occupying, rather, army. So I ask them, why are they not providing security?
MR. WALLACE: You haven't answered my question, sir. You haven't answered my question. Are your Revolutionary Guards --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: On the contrary, on the contrary, I have responded to your question.
MR. WALLACE: No you haven't.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We want security inside Iraq, and the Iraqis are our -- they're a part of our extended family. Many of their people have married our families, and there's a long history of civilization and also cultural exchanges and ties between the two countries. We love them all.
MR. WALLACE: As far as I can make out, you love almost everybody -- everybody but the Israelis.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: No. In Israel we make a distinction between ordinary citizens and those in the government. We have our differences of opinion with them.
But the question is, why are the Americans refusing to shoulder their responsibility?
The Ministry of -- the minister of Interior of Iraq has officially announced that America is behind the terrorist operations inside Iraq. And we are yet to hear a response to that.
MR. WALLACE: What do you think of George Bush, as a man and as commander in chief of the so-called free world?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the so-called says everything.
MR. WALLACE: What do you think of George W. Bush?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: What do you think I should think about the gentleman? How should I think about him?
MR. WALLACE: Come on, come on. You're perfectly capable of handling that question, if you have the courage to answer it.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, thank you very much. So you are teaching me how to be bold and courageous. That's interesting.
MR. WALLACE: (Laughs.) Answer the question.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I think that Mr. Bush can be in the service of his own people. He can save the American economy using appropriate methodology without killing people, innocents, without occupation, without threats. So what is needed is for the president to go inside -- to go out to the streets and hear what the ordinary people in the streets have to say. I am very saddened to hear that 1 percent of the total population is in prisons, and 20 percent are illiterate and 45 million people don't have a health care cover. I am also told that in the past 100 years of U.S. history 105 wars have been waged. That is very sad to hear.
Well, with these in mind, I have to say that you can think differently. Of course, the gentleman can make a choice. He's free to choose, but the nations will not necessarily follow him. And in its good time, they will respond. In that letter, I had talked about these and other matters.
MR. WALLACE: In the letter, you praised Jesus and asked President Bush how he could be a follower of Christ and claim to support human rights, but at the same time, attack and occupy other countries, kill thousands of people, spend billions of dollars on wars. And you urged him, the president, out of respect for the teachings of Christ, to be a force for peace instead of war. Is that so?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is true.
MR. WALLACE: Okay.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: This was a part of my letter.
MR. WALLACE: That's what I -- yes.
So and he didn't answer, why do you think?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, I wanted to open a window towards the light for the president so that he can see that one can look on the world through different perspectives. All are free to choose. We are all free to choose. But please give him this message, sir: Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will not have a good ending or fate.
MR. WALLACE: What does that mean?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, you see that his approval rating is dropping every day. Hatred vis-a-vis the president is increasing every day around the world. For a ruler, this is the worst message that he could receive. Rulers and heads of government at the end of their office must leave the office holding their heads high.
MR. WALLACE: How long has it been since --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- as the people must continue to love them once they leave the office.
MR. WALLACE: How long has it been since the leaders of Iran and the leaders of U.S. have had any conversations?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Twenty-six, 27 years.
MR. WALLACE: Do you have the least desire to resume relations with the United States?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Should we do that?
MR. WALLACE: Do you have that desire?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Who cut the relations, I ask you.
MR. WALLACE: That's not the point. The question is, would you, the president of Iran, like to resume relationships, which have been gone for 26, 27 years, with the United States?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, we are interested to have relations with all governments and all nations.
MR. WALLACE: No, no, no. Please answer --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: This is a principle of my foreign policy.
MR. WALLACE: I know that.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Allow me to finish my thought.
MR. WALLACE: Why don't you just answer? Say yes or no.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: (Chuckling.) Well, you asked me a three- minute-long question --
MR. WALLACE: No, no, no, I didn't.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- and you are asking for a yes-and- -- yes-or-no answer?
MR. WALLACE: It's a very simple question.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So is this a multiple choice?
MR. WALLACE: Do you --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: A, B, C, D? (Chuckles.)
MR. WALLACE: (Chuckles.)
Do you want to have relations now, after 26, 27 years, with the United States? What harm could come from that?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We are not talking about harm. The conditions -- conducive conditions have to be there.
MR. WALLACE: And what are those conducive conditions?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, please look at the makeup of the American administration, the behavior of the American administration. See how they talk down to my nation. And this recent resolution passed about the nuclear issue -- look at the wording. They had given us, presented us with a package, which we are studying right now. We even gave them a date for our response. Ignoring that, they passed a resolution. They want to build an empire, and they don't want to live side by side in peace with other nation.
MR. WALLACE: Who? Who does not? Washington does not?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: The American government. It is very clear to me. They have to change their behavior, and everything will be resolved.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: (In English) Time is over.
MR. WALLACE: The time is over, yes.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: The time is over, Mr. Wallace, yes. I would -- well, we very much like to see all nations to live in peace.
MR. WALLACE: You know what --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And the message of the Iranian Revolution was a message of peace and justice. We want everyone to live in peace, and for oppression, and also poverty, not to exist anymore. And also for the armament factories not to work 24/7, to produce 24/7.
MR. WALLACE: Why, then --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: And where are they going to use the third generation atomic bombs, well, they are made to kill people, are they not? They are making these bombs through taxpayer money -- with taxpayer money, and we are not happy with that.
MR. WALLACE: Are you ever wrong?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Any person can be wrong.
MR. WALLACE: Why is your economy in trouble?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, let's go back 27 years. We -- actually, we took control of the economy from the Americans. What was the state of the economy back then? Of course, I correct myself. A government which was being supported and was dependent on the Americans. We didn't have anything. They were taking our oil.
MR. WALLACE: And 27 years later, your economy is in trouble. How come?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, also there was an eight-year imposed war, imposed on us by the Americans and the Europeans, to some extent.
MR. WALLACE: Is that the Iran-Iraq war?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Yes, sir. And also compare the situation now with 27 years ago. Our conditions are fast changing. Some people don't want this to happen, to come about.
MR. WALLACE: Three more questions, and that is all, I promise. I promise.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, the time is up, sir. I have to say the time is up.
MR. WALLACE: Please. I gave you -- you promised --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, perhaps one more, just one more.
MR. WALLACE: One more, all right.
Mr. President, you have said, quote, "Any country that imposes sanctions on Iran will regret it." How will they regret it?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, whoever sanctions us will stand to lose out. They will be worse off than we perhaps will be, because we are going to respond in kind. They need us more than we need them.
MR. WALLACE: Who's "they"?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Whoever sanctions this country.
MR. WALLACE: I see. They need you more than you need them?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: That is true. We can look after ourselves.
MR. WALLACE: One more?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: I think that you have put 20 years' worth of questions to me.
MR. WALLACE: One more. One more. (Laughs.) One more.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: It's time for the night prayers.
MR. WALLACE: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree.
Last one.
Your -- you have a special unit of martyr seekers in your Revolutionary Guard. They claim they have 52,000 trained suicide bombers ready to attack American and British targets if America should attack Iran.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: This is unfortunate; you are thinking about the bomb as well.
MR. WALLACE: I'm thinking about reality. I have asked the question, do you have --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: Well, yes, I'm talking about the reality as well. And your thoughts have been put on paper, as I see.
MR. WALLACE: Oh, of course.
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: So, are you expecting the Americans to threaten us and we sit idly by and watch them --
Q And --
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: -- with our hands --
Q And have Americans threatened you?
PRESIDENT AHMADINEJAD: We have -- we have a long civilization, a very ancient civilization and culture. And also we believe in talking. We believe in dialogue and thinking. I do hope that the Americans will give up this practice of threatening other nations so that you are not forced to ask me such questions. (Laughter.)
I wish you well and further success.
MR. WALLACE: Thank you, sir.
I wished you stop referring to this murderer AhamidNejad as "President". The only Iranian who's ever genuinely earned this title is Mr. Moshe Katzov the president of Israel who was born in Yazd, Iran.
Posted by: Garduneh Mehr | Aug 15, 2006 at 21:32
Bravo! Thank you for obtaining this and making it available online. Excellent and YES! absolutely vital!
Would very much like to see the interview re-broadcast in its entirety on c-span, along with dialogue and discussion.
Thanks again. HMM
Posted by: | Aug 21, 2006 at 21:02
LET THE DIALOGUE BEGIN !
Additional note: I am forwarding the link to this full text of Ahmadinejad's interview to my own circle.
HMM
Posted by: | Aug 21, 2006 at 21:07
With reference to Mr.Garduneh Mehr's statement,
First things first.I would very much appreciate if you Spell the name correctly. The name is 'Mahmoud Ahmadinejad' The Honorable President of the Islamic Republic of Iran!
President Ahmadinejad has repeatedly talked about peace, justice, dignity, Love for the religion & the people, And I entirely support his proclaimations.
Today every iranian can be proud of the way he talks to the most powerful nations in the world, without fear, with respect but in a very offensive way.
There is defintely a strong position of muslims in today's society.
He's not scared of America and other forces who want to impose their way of life on everybody.
Posted by: Hira Hafeez | Sep 26, 2006 at 03:46